Question : Problem: Sound card quality when converting vinyl to wav

My computer is a Dell Optiplex GX280.  Its sound card is listed in device manager as SoundMAX Integrated Digital Audio.

I have just started a project of converting all my old vinyl 33RPMs to wav.  

I have the turntable, a preamp, and have successfully created my first wav files from the 33's

I am wondering if adding a M-Audio Revolution 7.1 card (~$100) would improve the quality of the resulting wav files.

Anyone have any experience or comments?  The big factor here is the amount of time this is going to take, and I do not want to do things twice.   If the M-Audio card will make a difference, I don't mind investing the $$$$.

Thanks for your comments

Answer : Problem: Sound card quality when converting vinyl to wav

As nobus noted, he sent me a note and pointed me to this question ... so I'll be glad to toss in a few thoughts ...

First, a bit of background ...

I've recorded over 600 old LP's, and "cleaned" the music so it sounds virtually as good as CDs.  With most of these recordings you'd be very hard-pressed to tell the difference.   I use a combination of the Syntrillium filters (add-ons for Cool Edit), Sonic Foundry's audio filters, and Jeff Klein's "Click-Fix" to do the processing -- but this collection of filters would cost you several hundred dollars, and some are no longer available.   I could write a book on the "cleaning" process -- I've tried a wide variety of programs over the past 10 years or so, and spent more $$ than I care to think about.  The Dak package referenced above is definitely not the best, but a friend has used them to do several records, and for the money they do a great job.  They don't have the capabilities of the suite I'm using, but they certainly pass the "good enough" test -- and you can get the recorder, a very capable audio editor, and the click & pop filter software all for less than I paid for my cheapest add-on!!

The recording process itself is pretty simple.  You indicated you already have a turntable and pre-amp and understand how to connect this to your sound card to do the recording.   You didn't indicate which application you're using to do the recording, but you can use any audio application that allows recording to record the records -- I use Cool Edit, which is now Adobe Audition, but this is a bit pricey.    But what I would suggest is you buy the $39.85 "suite" special at the bottom of the page at:   http://www.dak.com/reviews/2040story.cfm

The reason is simple:  once you've recorded music from LP's you'll want to "clean" those recordings to eliminate any groove noise, clicks, pops, etc. that often plague old LP recordings.   The set of programs I have do a superb job of this ... but cost over $600.  The Dak package does a very nice job for MUCH less $$  [Over the years, I've bought Dart Pro, DC-Art, Cool Edit Audio filters, Sonic Foundry Direct-X filters (excellent), Click-Fix (also excellent), and several other packages ==> if Dak's "Click, Pop, & Hiss Assassin" had been available when I started the conversion process, I may very well have just used it.]

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Enough background ... as for your specific questions & a few thoughts on the comments so far:

==>  First, how many channels your sound card supports in PLAYBACK is irrelevant.   What matters for this project is simply the S/N ratio of the recording input;  the quality of the A/D converter chip; and how well you set the recording level to eliminate (or at least minimize) clipping.    I used a Card-D card when I recorded all of my records several years ago => a very high-end (and expensive => ~ $400) sound card with superb recording characteristics.   I've since recorded a few additional records with an Audigy II, and it also works fine.   Bottom line:  As long as your S/N ratio is good enough (say at least 90db) the quality is fine.   An Audigy II has a 96db S/N ratio;  the Card-D's is 110db.     I did a bit of searching for the SoundMax chips and found this:  http://www.analog.com/en/DCcList/0,3090,765%255F%255F13,00.html
If you look up your specific chip in the Audio Codecs section you can find the input S/N ratio for it => I looked up a couple and found ranges from 80db to 90db.   The first isn't very good; but 90db is fine.   So just how much better recordings with the M-Audio card would be depends on which end of that spectrum your particular audio chip is at.   The M-Audio has a 100db S/N ratio ... so it's a VERY good card to use.

Bottom line:   Personally, I'd buy the M-Audio card to do the recording ... it's definitely better than your onboard audio.   The difference may be nominal (depending on just how high your current device's S/N is), but it's nevertheless at least 10db better than your onboard chip.


==>  Next, be sure to clean your records well before recording them.   It's amazing how much difference this can make at minimizing pops, clicks, and other residual noises.   I bought a Nitty Gritty Record Cleaning machine (~ $400) to clean them with, but there are less expensive ways to do an acceptable job.   http://www.nittygrittyinc.com/systems.htm    There are also much more expensive cleaning systems [http://www.elusivedisc.com/prodinfo.asp?number=HW-17FP2 ]  :-)    ... or you can build a DIY version [http://www.teresaudio.com/haven/cleaner/cleaner.html ]     You will be very surprised at how much difference a properly cleaned record can make in the quality of your recordings (I was).

As an absolute minimum, spray the record with a high quality record cleaning fluid and wipe it with a good quality cleaning brush; then dry it with a lint-free cloth.   But a good record cleaning machine will do the best job.     ... you can occasionally find a good Nitty Gritty on e-bay for about $200 => one of these days I'll list mine :-)


==>  The quality of your playback system can also make a difference, but since you already have the turntable you plan to use I'll assume it's a good quality unit.   I used a Yamaha linear-tracking turntable with a Shure V-15 Type IV VMR cartridge.


==>  As for what format to record in; the comment "... There are plenty of other formats that offer either smaller file size, better quality or both ..." is WRONG.   As you correctly noted, you can compress the recordings (MP3, WMA, etc.), but these are all "lossy" compression techniques and result in lost quality.   The .WAV format records the raw, uncompressed output from the sound card inputs ==> it's at the full quality that's possible with the # of bits you're recording ... nothing is "better quality."    And you WANT to keep the recording in this format at least until you're done processing your recordings.

Once you're done processing the recordings [eliminating click, pop, hiss, rumble, etc.] you may want to compress them to another format ==> but I would still suggest using a lossless codec.   Monkey's Audio, Windows Lossless, FLAC, etc. are all fine for this.   I use Monkey's Audio, but any are okay.   These will let you compress the audio to about 1/2 its original size.   You may also want to create a set of MP3's that you can use for other devices and/or to keep all of your music available in much less space => but at least store a copy of either the original .WAV or a lossless compression of it [I store everything on DVDs in .MAC (Monkey's Audio) format].


==>  As I noted, you'll want to process the recordings to digitally "clean" them ... get rid of all clicks, ticks, pops, groove noise, etc.  [hopefully you don't have any turntable rumble ... but you can also digiitally eliminate this].   After you've cleaned them, break the recordings into individual tracks [assuming you recorded a whole side of a record at a time -- as I did], and THEN you're ready to archive them.


==>  Your comment, "... The big factor here is the amount of time this is going to take ..." is absolutely right.   If anything, it's an understatement.   Practice with a few records until you're comfortable with your process.   I recorded all my records first (itself a very long process that took me well over a year); and then processed them one-at-a-time.   This can definitely be a labor or love ==> you'll occasionally come across a track (a favorite old song or instrumental) that you're DETERMINED to get "perfect" ... and you can easily spend HOURS working on a single 3-5 minute track that has a few elusive "pops" that you're determined to get rid of !!

==>  Enough.   As you can probably tell, I've done a LOT of this ... and really enjoyed it (You have to ... otherwise you'd never spend the time it takes).   Feel free to post any follow-up questions you have.